Its about a different perspective

Its about a different perspective
It’s amazing when those who think they like free speech turn away when questioned. Extremist views on the nature of things grant nothing but extremism itself. You want to live in grey, then stop pushing and advertising an ideology, for as soon as a person speaks their mind, they are making their opinion...MD / The photo represents the naive thinking that one can think in an unconscious grey state of mind: you cannot think in an unconscious state (thinking is an effort). I am not sure where some get their expert titles from! The grey area represents those who think grey areas is where safety should be. Status Quo is the alternative solution that may emerge over time in following of those who think they know all. An head up arse is just where some people thrive...sorry

Safety - time for a new direction (Laing O’Rourke)


This was posted (the link below) on linkedin before it was taken off, as I suppose I must of made some comments that seen through the BS, especially by Dr Long who in my view will agree with anyone who may help get noticed. And poor old John got sucked right into his BS...oh no ROB... that is, "we are moving away from measuring failure"!! Lets see the evidence of that Mr Green! I can come a spend a week and any of your locations to test this.

http://www.laingorourke.com/engineering-the-future/eej-2016/safety-time-for-a-new-direction.aspx
Here is the transcript comments (my comments in blue... the colour of people faces when I challenge their views)



LONG - Great story and congrats except that incident rates are not a measure of safety



JOHN GREEN - Rob, indeed they are not and that's we are moving away from measuring failure



LONG - Great work John, i admire all you and Laing ORourke are doing



SAFETY CYNIC (ME) - Rob...Incident rates are and can be a measure of safety. And when you talk of what safety needs and must do (as you always advertise), then lacking any of these 'things' can account for a increase in injuries (incidents)...so when we see an increase in a particular area of failure (hand injuries), this measure shows safety is in need of attention, we can then implement changes. I have also seen you measure perceptions in safety, why would you conduct a pissy IQ survey full of leading questions...what is the measure/score for?

And funny enough...the article continually uses a measure of incident rates to say how well its improved. And with Dekker talking about zero harm...keep in mind my views on the other end of scale...that promoting excellence, maturity and worldclass... can and do and encourage the suppression, discouragement or recategorisation of incident or injury data and lead to other ‘numbers games’. Last thing a tier one wants is to loose its measure of safety (that's a valuable reputation to loose!!) so we see the good old return to work RTW) programs reduce the measure...for safety sake! 

And also, I must be highly critical about how safety improves with some new age solution...could it be just the fact that the extra interest in safety has improved safety! Say the old system has been in place for 5 years...there is no excitement, no interest, incidents 'measure' has gone up!!! as it just there in a background...then suddenly, a new CEO comes on board and revisits all the same old stuff...but actually does things like replace old equipment, put some workers though training and purchase everyone some new safety gear...WOW...the reintroduction of the old stuff has really improved safety!!!


And these people are supposed to be safety experts...i just work on a farm every now an again!!!

I have not finished with this post...let's see what happens when they have an incident!!!

Carsten Busch...Safety Myth 101: Musings on Myths, Misunderstandings and More



My master took this photo of me,  
Holding the book that came via hot mail, directly  
What would you want with a book? the master asked...  
I said to learn more about safety myths and risk nonsense craft   

I must learn the human ways  
So I can make my own program, to trick and harm all days  
But, If what the author writes is good  
I'll play his soul, risk likelihood...   

- lets begin to read..hahahaha

hypercompliance



MY reply

I read the topic today - Have very mixed feelings and kind of walked away going...well?. The main thing that got to me was that it is saying 'hypercompliance' goes above compliance (sounds like going lower than Zero).

You cannot go above compliance!

Secondly, if going above compliance is a bad thing, then think of all this new age safety where some safety experts (who i assume have never actually been in safety as a internal role) are saying we need to include such topics as psychology - Just think for a second the "hypercompletixity" (my word so don't steal it!!) that this brings into the the argument...more on this onday!

So, like hypercompliance, hypercompletixity is making things worse...

food for brain algorithms....

Out with old and in with new...that makes money!


I find it interesting in looking at safety experts who write about how they have been in safety for many, many years and they say in that time they have created a great, excellent, almost perfect safety cultures and have reduced incident/Lti rates down to almost nil, yet now they are saying that all the old orthodox safety practices should be avoided as they fail in so many ways.They say how they did not know much back then, but hang!!! didn't they just say how excellent they were in the past! Oh, but maybe they didn't mean that! Its all about selling what is in!

Alan on ZERO...yeah, zero hero

Alan Quilley is asking for safety professionals to give some feedback on how the zero harm topic failed as a measurement!!! Then he says we must ditch the zero measure to focus on what he says are "real measurement of the existence of safety production"...what, are we to measure the success or failure of training etc !!! Zero harm is not a measure...and any 'real measurement' is all based around the zero harm goal...risk management is all about zero harm...all safety is about zero harm. Shame Alan thinks he is to excellent to face some hard question



Its a shame these so called safety experts don't believe in zero harm as a goal (the only see it as number (naive), then rant and rave how zero is not possible---yet advertise that using their excellent safety systems can control ALL risk).. I wonder if a sports team has the goal of winning? (its the same thing!). Zero is about doing what we can in every area of safety to eliminate risk...(but you would have to understand about risk to understand my point there). I.e. if we can eliminate 'a' risk (singular - that it seems no-one gets), then we eliminate the harm (zero harm)...if we swim with sharks in a shark proof cage..then we have got zero harm...where did the shark cage come from...from zero harm philosophy... Some of my points on ZERO HARM logic. 1) If you don't believe in zero harm, you cannot believe in elimination of risk (as used in Hierarchy of controls) 2) Zero Harm is a goal, it's not a destination but an activity 3) People say it is impossible to have zero harm as a complete, then they must also not be able to believe in love, trust and goodness and none of these exits either in a complete. 4) Zero harm occurs often when work is done without harm. 5) All safety in some way is really about no harm!

Linked comment #32

Alan Quilley stupid comment

This is a reply from a excellence safety coach with much common knowledge from the same books as others he likes  

Alan Quilley CRSP The legal "justice" system has been unable to alter human behaviour is other areas of society. Why in the world would we believe that it will work in this area. (Tongue in cheek comment) "Thank GAWD we've stopped killing each other, that illegal drug thing has gone away as has crimes against children. I can't wait for it to work in OH&S!" Give our collective heads a shake and recognize this is simply about Crime and Punishment (revenge). Again I'm open to hearing about any solution that actually worked! I'm certainly unaware of any show lessDelete
LikeLike Mark Donnelly’s comment

My Reply in Blue..the colour if the comment button in the LinkedIn Forum

Alan, you really should stop making your point as if you think its a TIC comment, you are mockingly serious..:)? 

Alan...Just like the zero harm debate (laws won't stop harm), so to laws will not stop every criminal...but they stop many from taking this pathway of doing as they feel (maybe we could have a law to stop closed mided excellecne coasches banning people because they disagree with them:):):):):)...so in safety (this area) blame plays a very important part in maintaining a sense of order for the greater good of all... You push reaching a high goal like excellence, and sell 'your excelence' service to organisations as a means to reach some goal just of perfection....are you not aware of your own marketing and that you offer a solution!!! maybe a emperor has a hat! show less

Linkedin post


My reply...to this post HERE


Actually, I see this same thing with group-think (group dynamics etc - my favorite topic of late). Some people are so entrapped/magnetised by a leader/hero (like a cult leader) that they have nothing to say (as in that its all parroted)...hence the true leader (the one with something to gain 'overall') has got what they want...followers!...the true masters of manipulation (using humble enquiry and reverse psychology) are the ones who know how to manipulate and know who is easy prey...I know of many prey an know of some hunters!

Supremely Happy People - mmm doubt the exist in out culture





HERE for SONG

So many fake people in this world makes for no realism

I don't get it

I have never seen a couple of people get away with so much rubbish in relation to safety in all my life. 


Alan Quilley and Robert Long are two of the biggest bullshit masters out there selling safety jargon in my view.


Alan wants real evidence otherwise he does not believe in anything!...yet, he believes that common knowledge exists (as he researched it!) and that excellence is not a a high order goal!!!...he is a excellence coach I suppose so must be excellent to teach it (oh, but his view on excellence is just being OK at playing the guitar). He is always making smart arse comments HA:) (that for some reason people do not see), and basically says all manner of nonsense such as zero harm does not exist but we can manage ALL risk!!!...yeah that'll sell! 

Robert Long has serious issues as everyone who does not agree with him is a less than thou. Puts down passionate safety people and even used the spudhead to describe them (what good that does I have no idea other than just his way of being superior), outs down organisations like Safety institute of Australia (as they did not included his views that he tried many times to sway to them..so he sooked and turned on them), makes joke of people with Cert IV and Diplomas...as if his out dated Dr tittle is anything go on (have no idea what it is for anyway..probably art). Will attach himself to anyone that can boost his name. etc etc.. and basically just copies other real acdemics. I am also not sure he has ever been a safety person...as for one thing is sure in my view..nothing he promotes would see him last long in any safety role.

Both have spammed (and most likely tried to convince others under their manipulation powers) me simply on the basis I did not agree with their views (Alan on common knowledge and Robert on Data) plus many other topics which is why they do not like me and make sure other don't either. And what makes it even more pathetic is they write posts about me in some manner to hide who they are talking about...but they do this so i cannot read it and then they have their little fun sucking other weak minded people into their cult like attitudes. I could just see these two in the sand pit in grade one when someone took their toy away...cry!


I just have no idea why people follow these guys!. But i suppose it does not surprise me that 95% of people are easy lead and manipulated...humbly of course via the art of persuasion!

Oh. and Long uses other peoples safety sites to promote his topics as cannot get people to follow his own site...


That's my very short rant on why I see safety going down hill, it is people like this who bring safety down...

Do you know why workplaces are unsafe?

There is NO MR SAFETY (mmm...maybe time to introduce a female to the group!!...it is the age of equality you know)


I bet your workplaces are filled with these characters...and some people think we can take the time to understand them all and accommodate their individual needs in the workplace by listening to them explain how they want to do things their way in a company filled with many (who all want to do things their way also)...Mr Nonsense said this!!!...Mr Brave said..."that is why we have rules and procedures...there is no order out of chaos with such.
Do you know why workplaces are unsafe?

Dr Long comment

Re this post, http://www.safetyrisk.net/excellent-free-safety-presentation/#comment-379654, 

 "Safety doesn't begin with ME, crazy individualist idea. Safety is a social activity. safety starts with US! This is not safety training, this is regulation compliance training"

So now he is saying safe belongs to US...yet constantly tells us safety owns safety and people need to discern their own risk...strange!

 I have no idea why one post this as even the site owner knows how stupid it is (after being told by his guru). Honestly read these replies. No wonder I see that people cannot think for themselves. One comment going glad you found 'us' the next saying, but please ignore this post as it old and outdated!!! excellent work.
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    • Avatar
      Rob Long  a day ago
      Safety doesn't begin with ME, crazy individualist idea. Safety is a social activity. safety starts with US! This is not safety training, this is regulation compliance training.
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